Great Powers

As of 2021:

1. United States
2. Russia
3. China
4. Britain
5. Germany
6. France
7. Saudi Arabia
8. Iran
9. Turkey
10. Israel


Help me rank Japan, a huge country, huge economy, but far, and kinda isolationist. In one hand it surpasses France and Germany, yet it doesn't achieve as much in geopolitics.

Reasons for this rankings: US, RF, PRC (obvious), Britain(meddling), Germany(economy+eu), France(leverage in francophonie), Saudi Arabia(leverage in islamic world), Iran(leverage through shias). Turkey(syria, libya, azerbaijan), Israel(chosen)

Britain should drop down below France. Especially with what's going on with brexit.

I found this: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/power-rankings

Israel should be higher on the power ranking. And i guess its a toss-up between China and Russia for second place.
I might place China on second place at this moment. Their soft power exceeds Russias soft power, their economic power too. And their military budget is way higher now. Its just that China is very unlikely to invade other countries to show strenght and russia is no stranger to it.

Saudi Arabia military is flawed af. They spent too much on very poor materials, furthermore they buy for example 100 planes while they have 10 pilots.
Id place EU on third place because of their economic might, and they are way closer to being a superpower than Russia.
Id place india on the top 10 as well, because their potential economic might is always underrated. Their military is meh, but their defense budget is higher than that of Russia. Also they have nukes. But they lack the soft power, or technological power or experience to be above Russia.
France and uk is a toss-up. Id rank french military higher and their economy is surpassing that of UK, and they are within the EU. Meanwhile, the UK has the dominions and huge soft power.
Israels soft power is gigantic, USA will never give up on israel. Furthermore, its the only kinda democratic country in the middle east. Their economic might is enormous compared to its neighbours, also they have nukes and could in a war bring almost all arab nations to its knees.
Turkey is a special case. Their defense budget and soft power is huge. But they lack economic might. They also have some military advantage, their drones in azerbaijzan were excellent and they are the first country to use laserbeams as military weapon. (yes, you read that right, laser beams are used now by turkish military as a weapon).
Japanese soft power is megahuge. What would you do if Japan decided to cut all ties and make nintento or sony not sell in Europe. No more Ps5 or nintento in your country rip. Many electronics come from Japan. But their military lacks enorm just like German military.
SK and germany is a toss-up. Mainly because Germany has bigger soft and economic power but SK has better military.
So my ranking would be;
USA
China
(EU)
Russia
France/ UK
India
Israel/ Turkey
Japan
Germany/ South Korea

Britain, Germany and France do not have cognitive ability to act in their nation's self-interest. Hence I wouldn't call them great powers. They are entirely neutered on the world stage. Think of them like a soy-boy in comparison to let's say Turkey, which aggressively pursues its own interest at the expense of its neighbours, while the so called European powers can only watch and wag their finger. No economic, soft or hard power will ever make up for this lack of assertiveness. Compare how these "great powers" reacted to Russia invading the Ukraine with how the very same powers reacted to Russia invading Turkey 150 years ago.

Turkey for sure, I do dislike their actions but they have balls, credit where its due

For The US, we'll have to see what happens in the next few months tbh

Ecrit par learster, 02.02.2021 at 01:56

Britain, Germany and France do not have cognitive ability to act in their nation's self-interest. Hence I wouldn't call them great powers. They are entirely neutered on the world stage. Think of them like a soy-boy in comparison to let's say Turkey, which aggressively pursues its own interest at the expense of its neighbours, while the so called European powers can only watch and wag their finger. No economic, soft or hard power will ever make up for this lack of assertiveness. Compare how these "great powers" reacted to Russia invading the Ukraine with how the very same powers reacted to Russia invading Turkey 150 years ago.

Whoa how can you say that, 1000 years old institutions like military, navy, espionage, diplomacy. Sure their governments (or people) are not willing to play the game as they used to 150 years ago, but that doesn't prove weakness. Maybe they are just using USA as a shield?

Can you write me your top 10 great powers, if you say UK/FR/D don't deserve to be in in?

If we're going to be pessimist, then neither USA, Russia and Saudi Arabia don't deserve to be called great powers, due to instability in America, corruption in Russia and Saudi Arabia not producing single damn thing!

Ecrit par Witch-Doctor, 01.02.2021 at 16:35

Britain should drop down below France. Especially with what's going on with brexit.

Didn't Brexit made UK stronger?

I can't put them(yet) below France due to them having more colonies, bases, 1 more carrier, better espionage and more efficient diplomacy.

Check wiki about global events, UK is always second behind USA: Iraqi War, Hong Kong, Syria, Libya, Serbia, Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, contributing more than others in those endeavours.

1. US
2. China
3. EU
4. Anglosphere (UK, Aus, Canada, NZ is already 7x Russia's economic output.)
5. Russia
6. Japan
7. Germany
8. India
9. Brazil
10. Indonesia

I don't think Turkey, Iran or even Saudi Arabia would make the list. Turkey's economy is in freefall since half a decade, Saudi has the most incompetent and fragile economic model, and Iran is stuck in the 1980s. I'd rather put Indonesia instead of Turkey due to it's higher economy, population, and proximity to the strait of Malacca.
Nominally, Russia is unstable (2013-2016 lost half it's GDP) and has even worse leverage than Italy, It's nowhere near the EU or China.

Ecrit par smegma lover, 02.02.2021 at 07:29

1. US
2. China
3. EU
4. Anglosphere (UK, Aus, Canada, NZ is already 7x Russia's economic output.)
5. Russia
6. Japan
7. Germany
8. India
9. Brazil
10. Indonesia

I don't think Turkey, Iran or even Saudi Arabia would make the list. Turkey's economy is in freefall since half a decade, Saudi has the most incompetent and fragile economic model, and Iran is stuck in the 1980s. I'd rather put Indonesia instead of Turkey due to it's higher economy, population, and proximity to the strait of Malacca.
Nominally, Russia is unstable (2013-2016 lost half it's GDP) and has even worse leverage than Italy, It's nowhere near the EU or China.

I don't think were at the point where alliances can be rated as great powers (EU), and Saudi Arabia not a great power? Whatever they say, 2 billion muslims obey, they also have Mecca, money, oil as leverage, OPEC. When they shut down oil in 1973, West almost collapsed, that's a huge leverage.

Iran is the 'energy superpower', they have much gas and oil to the end of days and beyond. While their military is not modern and economy is small due to Western sanctions, they are still a forbidable force: supporting Yemen, Syria, Iraq is literally their playground now, and there are 20,000 afghani shia recruited by Iran to fight in Syria.

Turkey, although not near Iran and Saudi Arabia in terms of resources, it built up a decent military, and its using it everywhere; Syria, Libya, Azerbaijan, building big bases in Iraq and Qatar. They had 17,000 syrian rebels in Libya, then transported to Azerbaijan.

Russian economy is very small compared to western standards, but huge military and lots of resources; bases in Arctic, Middle East, now in Africa, It has leverage over energy like Turkish Stream, Nord Stream, Power of Siberia. Italy have larger economy, but no means to project power further than Med sea because it is not investing in similar projects like Russia.

For example, who is stronger: a guy who make shoes and makes shitload of money, or a guy who make guns and barely survives selling them?

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 02.02.2021 at 08:20

Whatever they say, 2 billion muslims obey

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 02.02.2021 at 03:45

Ecrit par Witch-Doctor, 01.02.2021 at 16:35

Britain should drop down below France. Especially with what's going on with brexit.

Didn't Brexit made UK stronger?

heck no

Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,
Israel,

Ecrit par Witch-Doctor, 02.02.2021 at 12:11

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 02.02.2021 at 03:45

Ecrit par Witch-Doctor, 01.02.2021 at 16:35

Britain should drop down below France. Especially with what's going on with brexit.

Didn't Brexit made UK stronger?

heck no

lawl, pros and cons. Not a definitive "No"

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 02.02.2021 at 03:40

Whoa how can you say that, 1000 years old institutions like military, navy, espionage, diplomacy. Sure their governments (or people) are not willing to play the game as they used to 150 years ago, but that doesn't prove weakness. Maybe they are just using USA as a shield?

Can you write me your top 10 great powers, if you say UK/FR/D don't deserve to be in in?

If we're going to be pessimist, then neither USA, Russia and Saudi Arabia don't deserve to be called great powers, due to instability in America, corruption in Russia and Saudi Arabia not producing single damn thing!

What use are these institutions in the hands of mental children? Have you ever watched a parliamentary debate in Germany? They live stream them. You will see old, fat, unhealthy and dough-handed officials playing with their phones like a teenager in class. If they're not sleeping. This is of course only possible due to the apathy of the German people and their best and brightest going into industry. There is no higher calling for an intelligent man than to pursue the most well paid position, which politics is not, and so the latter is only attractive to impotent leeches. A great power this could be, but it is not.

When we're talking about great powers, what, exactly, is meant by "power"?

If we're merely looking at the ability of countries to influence the decisions of other countries, I'd put China at number two and Russia somewhere far, far down there. The only reason I can think of why Russia might even be a candidate for number two is if you think "power" means "military power".

...and arguably the European Union as an institution exerts more global influence than the national government of any of its members.

Ecrit par smegma lover, 02.02.2021 at 07:29

and Saudi Arabia not a great power? Whatever they say, 2 billion muslims obey,

lmao there aren't even 2 billion muslims

Ecrit par International, 03.02.2021 at 07:42

When we're talking about great powers, what, exactly, is meant by "power"?

If we're merely looking at the ability of countries to influence the decisions of other countries, I'd put China at number two and Russia somewhere far, far down there. The only reason I can think of why Russia might even be a candidate for number two is if you think "power" means "military power".

...and arguably the European Union as an institution exerts more global influence than the national government of any of its members.

China is using trade to influence the decisions of other countries, and Russia is using energy(oil and gas), half of EU is powered by Russian resources, that's huge political leverage and power without a shot fired. Isn't that enough for tier 2 or 3?

I also see many people include EU in the list, so if we're gonna add organizations, then i will add Vatican; although they are not state per se, they wield tremendous soft power around the globe, having 1 billion members, money, infrastructure, schools, agents, even army.

I'd put them as tier 4 great power, below 3 superpowers and above european quint.

China is future number 1.

1. United States of America
2. United States
3. America
4. 'Merica
5. US
6. USA
7. U.S.A.
8. The United States
9. The United States of America
10. AMERICAAAA FUCK YEAAAAAAAAAAAA