August Coup

25 years ago Soviet Communists tried to get power in USSR via coup and stop Democracy. It was a decisive moment in North Asian history. But people opposed and even Red Army of Workers and Peasants eventually joined civilians, making coup fail epicly. Democracy won and allowed Russia to liberate 15+6 (Warsaw Pact) republics.

Imagine if Communists won and took command of the USSR and enter 21st century. Would there be difference in the World today?

coup leaders

Same shit , different colour.

Communism was the cancer that brought many great countries down. It would just probably take another 10 years until it falls again , if a counter coup didnt happen before that.

Ecrit par Ghostface, 19.08.2016 at 19:34

Same shit , different colour.

Communism was the cancer that brought many great countries down. It would just probably take another 10 years until it falls again , if a counter coup didnt happen before that.

I would like it to be that easy, so can i ask you this way:

Your country was part of Communist Yugoslavia, now it is independent but Capitalist. Can you write a list of things that Communist Yugoslavia have built for people from 1945 to 1965 (20 years span) and what have Capitalist Macedonia built for people from 1991 to 2011?

You'll see the contradictions later.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 20.08.2016 at 07:29

Ecrit par Ghostface, 19.08.2016 at 19:34

I would like it to be that easy, so can i ask you this way:

Your country was part of Communist Yugoslavia, now it is independent but Capitalist. Can you write a list of things that Communist Yugoslavia have built for people from 1945 to 1965 (20 years span) and what have Capitalist Macedonia built for people from 1991 to 2011?

You'll see the contradictions later.

Sure people were happy back then because they were getting a lot more money than now , some infrastructure was built thanks to they yugoslav funds but generally the country was neglected , as to why when it seceded in 1991 it was one of the poorest parts of yugoslavia along with montenegro,kosovo and bosnia. Even though majority of the country is mountainous and with hills , dominant sectors back then in the country were the agricultural and textile manufactories. If you want a clear answer you can just compare the economic growth of Macedonia and its road and city infrastructure back in 1960 or 1991 and with what it is now and how fast it is accelerating as time passes by.
You will realise that the communists are the worst people ever when you compare how strong and big your country Russia was before 1917 and how it shrunk and got devastated during the communist reign and the result after in 1991. Millions of people died in ww2 on the Russian side simply because the communists wanted to get their people on power and appointed generals and commanders which had no clue what they were doing , hence why so many dead were left after. Yugoslavija was similar but the difference is that communists got it much later than in Russia and we had Tito , who was one of the best leaders we could have , but after his death we all know how fast it all went down the drain...

Ecrit par Ghostface, 20.08.2016 at 16:20

Sure people were happy back then because they were getting a lot more money than now , some infrastructure was built thanks to they yugoslav funds but generally the country was neglected , as to why when it seceded in 1991 it was one of the poorest parts of yugoslavia along with montenegro,kosovo and bosnia. Even though majority of the country is mountainous and with hills , dominant sectors back then in the country were the agricultural and textile manufactories. If you want a clear answer you can just compare the economic growth of Macedonia and its road and city infrastructure back in 1960 or 1991 and with what it is now and how fast it is accelerating as time passes by.
You will realise that the communists are the worst people ever when you compare how strong and big your country Russia was before 1917 and how it shrunk and got devastated during the communist reign and the result after in 1991. Millions of people died in ww2 on the Russian side simply because the communists wanted to get their people on power and appointed generals and commanders which had no clue what they were doing , hence why so many dead were left after. Yugoslavija was similar but the difference is that communists got it much later than in Russia and we had Tito , who was one of the best leaders we could have , but after his death we all know how fast it all went down the drain...

Now check my list:

Russian Empire was agricultural rural country where 90% of the population were farmers and peasants. I don't say that's bad, they had healthy lifestyle in the God-given nature, but the country was not industrialized and didn't had production rates like Europe or North America.

As soon Communists took power, they

built electric stations to bring electricity to all cities and villages,
built dams to produce power
built factories to produce tractors and other machinery necessary for modern world
built laboratories to innovate and create new chemicals for agricultural and industrial products
built military-industrial complex to provide national army with weapons and war equipment, ships, submarines, planes and tanks never seen before
tens of thousands of schools, colleges and faculties for young and old to learn
and after 20 years, built space program and space city to test and create spaceships and train cosmonauts to explore space
and nuclear energy, for both civilian and military use


And today, with democracy/capitalism in power for 25 years:

Infrastructure is in decay
Roads full with holes
factories shut down
schools and faculties still use old equipment
military industrial complex semi-destroyed
millions unemployed


So my point is, if Communism was bad, how come people are in worse situation today when they are in better system? And how come Communism was able to build so much for the people and build things modern society need, and today this new system is not able to create anything and not even capable of maintaining balance, but it is getting worse even though current system is already 25 years on power? Why? Do you see my point?

When i had a talk with Brianwl, he made one epic comment, he nailed it, he said: Why Canada in the 19th century was able to develop so fast and so much without large amounts of money and didn't even create debt, and today after 100-150 years when Canada is fully developed we can't grow anymore although we have money and we have debt?

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 20.08.2016 at 07:29

Ecrit par Ghostface, 19.08.2016 at 19:34

Same shit , different colour.

Communism was the cancer that brought many great countries down. It would just probably take another 10 years until it falls again , if a counter coup didnt happen before that.

I would like it to be that easy, so can i ask you this way:

Your country was part of Communist Yugoslavia, now it is independent but Capitalist. Can you write a list of things that Communist Yugoslavia have built for people from 1945 to 1965 (20 years span) and what have Capitalist Macedonia built for people from 1991 to 2011?

You'll see the contradictions later.

Communism = shit system to make government rich secretly masking by helping people.
Capitalism= same shit but instead of government the amount of money you have it's the amount of power you have.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 20.08.2016 at 16:37

Ecrit par Ghostface, 20.08.2016 at 16:20

Sure people were happy back then because they were getting a lot more money than now , some infrastructure was built thanks to they yugoslav funds but generally the country was neglected , as to why when it seceded in 1991 it was one of the poorest parts of yugoslavia along with montenegro,kosovo and bosnia. Even though majority of the country is mountainous and with hills , dominant sectors back then in the country were the agricultural and textile manufactories. If you want a clear answer you can just compare the economic growth of Macedonia and its road and city infrastructure back in 1960 or 1991 and with what it is now and how fast it is accelerating as time passes by.
You will realise that the communists are the worst people ever when you compare how strong and big your country Russia was before 1917 and how it shrunk and got devastated during the communist reign and the result after in 1991. Millions of people died in ww2 on the Russian side simply because the communists wanted to get their people on power and appointed generals and commanders which had no clue what they were doing , hence why so many dead were left after. Yugoslavija was similar but the difference is that communists got it much later than in Russia and we had Tito , who was one of the best leaders we could have , but after his death we all know how fast it all went down the drain...

Now check my list:

Russian Empire was agricultural rural country where 90% of the population were farmers and peasants. I don't say that's bad, they had healthy lifestyle in the God-given nature, but the country was not industrialized and didn't had production rates like Europe or North America.

As soon Communists took power, they

built electric stations to bring electricity to all cities and villages,
built dams to produce power
built factories to produce tractors and other machinery necessary for modern world
built laboratories to innovate and create new chemicals for agricultural and industrial products
built military-industrial complex to provide national army with weapons and war equipment, ships, submarines, planes and tanks never seen before
tens of thousands of schools, colleges and faculties for young and old to learn
and after 20 years, built space program and space city to test and create spaceships and train cosmonauts to explore space
and nuclear energy, for both civilian and military use


And today, with democracy/capitalism in power for 25 years:

Infrastructure is in decay
Roads full with holes
factories shut down
schools and faculties still use old equipment
military industrial complex semi-destroyed
millions unemployed


So my point is, if Communism was bad, how come people are in worse situation today when they are in better system? And how come Communism was able to build so much for the people and build things modern society need, and today this new system is not able to create anything and not even capable of maintaining balance, but it is getting worse even though current system is already 25 years on power? Why? Do you see my point?

When i had a talk with Brianwl, he made one epic comment, he nailed it, he said: Why Canada in the 19th century was able to develop so fast and so much without large amounts of money and didn't even create debt, and today after 100-150 years when Canada is fully developed we can't grow anymore although we have money and we have debt?

I will add some things.Soviets secretly sent people to Gulags if they didn't support communism.All people with some lands in villages were required to give their lands to the government if no Gulag.Stalin killed 40+ millions cause stupidity and paranoia.Lenin could have a great idea but all the rulers after him just used their government places to take money.Like capitalists do.At least with capitalism we have liberty and we can protest until government shut down.It isn't much and the inequality rate is incredible but what u prefere work hard to get your money and raise up or make better your job and have the same salary.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 20.08.2016 at 16:37

So my point is, if Communism was bad, how come people are in worse situation today when they are in better system?

I wouldn't say capitalism is better or worse, simply a different shit... none of them systems has been developed as it should. The theory of the system is way different from the reality in which governments are employing them.

Nowadays, capitalism means wealth only to the 1% of the population while keeping the rest of the world in poberty, meanwhile communism means everyone gets to be equally poor. The difference is that rich people in capitalism are private corporations which do not benefit the society in any way, meanwhile the country/government should (and I say should, because not always happened due to corruption) be rich when being in a communist system.

The ideas in which are based both of these systems are actually not bad, but they've been taken to real life in very extremist ways. What we have is not capitalism, but a extreme capitalism. Same as there has never been a balanced communism.

Communism was good in theory but the worst in practice .thats all !

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 21.08.2016 at 06:02

Communism = shit system to make government rich secretly masking by helping people.
Capitalism= same shit but instead of government the amount of money you have it's the amount of power you have.

What do you like more: to work alone and risk to fail or succeed, or state to plan for you, so you only go to work, come home later and have freedom to do whatever you want and there is no risk to fail or succeed?

USSR had planned economy, but i lived in Greece as well and i saw most people complain there because they work whole day, no one is forcing them, but they chose too and suddenly found themselves unable to stop. They were making loads of cash which made me think they were few times richer than Germany or America, but they simply didn't had time to spend it, or enjoy in the thing they bought; like cars, holidays, video games, movies, socialization.

How to balance this two things?

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 21.08.2016 at 06:09

I will add some things.Soviets secretly sent people to Gulags if they didn't support communism.All people with some lands in villages were required to give their lands to the government if no Gulag.Stalin killed 40+ millions cause stupidity and paranoia.Lenin could have a great idea but all the rulers after him just used their government places to take money.Like capitalists do.At least with capitalism we have liberty and we can protest until government shut down.It isn't much and the inequality rate is incredible but what u prefere work hard to get your money and raise up or make better your job and have the same salary.

Lenin was evil, he started to latinize Russian language and other North Asian languages, Stalin stopped that and returned old style. If Lenin succeeded changing language he would destroy Russian, Turcic, Tatar, Baltic identity, which would eventually destroy culture, tradition, religion and history.

Losing freedom is short-term, but losing identity last forever, it is the greatest genocide, and it can never be repaired.

Ecrit par RaulPB, 21.08.2016 at 06:40

I wouldn't say capitalism is better or worse, simply a different shit... none of them systems has been developed as it should. The theory of the system is way different from the reality in which governments are employing them.

Nowadays, capitalism means wealth only to the 1% of the population while keeping the rest of the world in poberty, meanwhile communism means everyone gets to be equally poor. The difference is that rich people in capitalism are private corporations which do not benefit the society in any way, meanwhile the country/government should (and I say should, because not always happened due to corruption) be rich when being in a communist system.

The ideas in which are based both of these systems are actually not bad, but they've been taken to real life in very extremist ways. What we have is not capitalism, but a extreme capitalism. Same as there has never been a balanced communism.

I was mostly talking about Eastern Europe, because Communism was building necessary things there[infrastructure, roads, tunnels, bridges, electricity, power stations, dams, industry, schools, hospitals, prisons, libraries, today everything that is in decay while only bars and cafes flourish], and now after 25 years in Capitalism, capitalism didn't build anything yet. So my question was more like: 'what is capitalism waiting for?'

I don't know if you can understand that, you are not from Eastern Europe/ex-USSR/Russia.

Most of East EU countries have 10-20% unemployment, some of them even 50%, like Africa, so is that because Communism or because Capitalism? Is it correct to blame Communism for that when there is no Communism for 25 years there, only Capitalism?

Also, the question is, as i mentioned Canada, how is it possible for America, Canada and Europe to develop in the 19th century and not create (significant) debt? And today when they are fully developed countries - they have 100% GDP debt, financial crisis and unempoyment is rising? Mathematics say after achieving developed status, you make more money which you can spend and thus you avoid debt, crisis or unemployment, so what is going on? Also American salaries are not rising since 1971, GDP is growing but not the salaries, which either mean growth is a lie, or extra earned money are going to very few people and are not spread throughout workforce.

As you said, Capitalism nowadays means wealth for only 1% population. What if that's about Marx was talking about, and wrote a book will happen? Did he predicted that 150 years ago? Maybe his class warfare meant 99% vs 1%, not working class vs. middle class vs. nobility?

I'm just asking the questions here, not claiming anything.

Godfather You prefere Freedom and power of the people or a Tyranny with Gulags?

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 20.08.2016 at 16:37

Ecrit par Ghostface, 20.08.2016 at 16:20

Now check my list:

Russian Empire was agricultural rural country where 90% of the population were farmers and peasants. I don't say that's bad, they had healthy lifestyle in the God-given nature, but the country was not industrialized and didn't had production rates like Europe or North America.

As soon Communists took power, they

built electric stations to bring electricity to all cities and villages,
built dams to produce power
built factories to produce tractors and other machinery necessary for modern world
built laboratories to innovate and create new chemicals for agricultural and industrial products
built military-industrial complex to provide national army with weapons and war equipment, ships, submarines, planes and tanks never seen before
tens of thousands of schools, colleges and faculties for young and old to learn
and after 20 years, built space program and space city to test and create spaceships and train cosmonauts to explore space
and nuclear energy, for both civilian and military use


And today, with democracy/capitalism in power for 25 years:

Infrastructure is in decay
Roads full with holes
factories shut down
schools and faculties still use old equipment
military industrial complex semi-destroyed
millions unemployed


So my point is, if Communism was bad, how come people are in worse situation today when they are in better system? And how come Communism was able to build so much for the people and build things modern society need, and today this new system is not able to create anything and not even capable of maintaining balance, but it is getting worse even though current system is already 25 years on power? Why? Do you see my point?

When i had a talk with Brianwl, he made one epic comment, he nailed it, he said: Why Canada in the 19th century was able to develop so fast and so much without large amounts of money and didn't even create debt, and today after 100-150 years when Canada is fully developed we can't grow anymore although we have money and we have debt?

I can make a whole book on why your statement and communism itself was bad , but i will just show you this comparation:

Nazi Germany in its reign saw:
A sharp decline in unemployment , infact the lowest the country has seen ever until then
Built a lot of factories which made Germany one of the best industrialized countries
Got the country out of the great depression
One of the highest increases in GDP and overall living standard
Created one of the best equiped armies , navies and airforce
One of the first laws that worked to help animal conservation and ban hunting certain animal species
They were enviromentalists

... so from your logic , its perfectly fine for all governments in the world to switch to Nazism?
Edit: also i forgot the Nazi regime was also one of the first to try and aquire Uranium to try construct an Atomic Bomb

Godfather forgot how the ww2 started...signing a treaty in Bucharest in 1940,and because of Lenin's Revolution,Russia left the ww1,and betrayed his allies

After this,in russia was civil war btw "krasnie" and "belie", what serves to the countries,what had been in the empire,to be independent and free out of russian evil

Ecrit par Ghostface, 21.08.2016 at 13:50

I can make a whole book on why your statement and communism itself was bad , but i will just show you this comparation:

Nazi Germany in its reign saw:
A sharp decline in unemployment , infact the lowest the country has seen ever until then
Built a lot of factories which made Germany one of the best industrialized countries
Got the country out of the great depression
One of the highest increases in GDP and overall living standard
Created one of the best equiped armies , navies and airforce
One of the first laws that worked to help animal conservation and ban hunting certain animal species
They were enviromentalists

... so from your logic , its perfectly fine for all governments in the world to switch to Nazism?
Edit: also i forgot the Nazi regime was also one of the first to try and aquire Uranium to try construct an Atomic Bomb

That was the question:

Freedom but poverty or totalitarianism but order?

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 21.08.2016 at 16:31

Ecrit par Ghostface, 21.08.2016 at 13:50

I can make a whole book on why your statement and communism itself was bad , but i will just show you this comparation:

Nazi Germany in its reign saw:
A sharp decline in unemployment , infact the lowest the country has seen ever until then
Built a lot of factories which made Germany one of the best industrialized countries
Got the country out of the great depression
One of the highest increases in GDP and overall living standard
Created one of the best equiped armies , navies and airforce
One of the first laws that worked to help animal conservation and ban hunting certain animal species
They were enviromentalists

... so from your logic , its perfectly fine for all governments in the world to switch to Nazism?
Edit: also i forgot the Nazi regime was also one of the first to try and aquire Uranium to try construct an Atomic Bomb

That was the question:

Freedom but poverty or totalitarianism but order?

Freedom doesn't mean poverty and totalitarianism doesn't mean order.

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 21.08.2016 at 09:48

Godfather You prefere Freedom and power of the people or a Tyranny with Gulags?

Not sure, that's the battle many people on this planet have; Order and Prosperity or Freedom and Poverty.

You made on your profile to say location Spain, so if you are from Spain, you remember Old Spanish Monarchy. King as dictator rule the country, but people are free to do whatever they want, join the military, create jobs in the economy, trade with others, enlist in the navy to have adventures in the New World.

King/Dictator provided security, order and opportunity. Now when Spain is democracy (constitutional monarchy), its in decay with 20% unemployment and citizens emigrating.



Do you remember that South Korea had a dictator Park Chung Hee who ruled South Korea for 20 years? He had to take power and rule the country, while he let people do business (capitalism). He transformed South Korea from third world country to leading high-income high-tech service-led developed first world country.

Greece was backwarded land ravaged by civil war, turkish occupation and world war 2, then dictator Giorgios Papadopoulos took power and transformed Greece into first world country, Greece had economic miracle in that time.

Chiang Kai Chek ruled Taiwan as a dictator for 25 years and his martial law lasted for 38 years, longest in history! He had White Terror, oppressiong opposition and killing dissidents, but he transformed Taiwan from insignificant Chinese isle to first world country.

Singapore's prime minister Lee Kuan Yew ruled for 30 years and was condemned for media censorship, human rights violation and oppression but he transformed Singapore from third world colonial outpost to first world tiger.



There are many examples and that's the question, whether to accept dictatorship and prosperity or freedom and poverty. As we can see in Eastern Europe and ex-Soviet countries, they are unable to prosper although they have freedom and democracy. No matter whom they vote on elections, situation is the same for 25 years.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 21.08.2016 at 16:47

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 21.08.2016 at 09:48

Godfather You prefere Freedom and power of the people or a Tyranny with Gulags?

Not sure, that's the battle many people on this planet have; Order and Prosperity or Freedom and Poverty.

You made on your profile to say location Spain, so if you are from Spain, you remember Old Spanish Monarchy. King as dictator rule the country, but people are free to do whatever they want, join the military, create jobs in the economy, trade with others, enlist in the navy to have adventures in the New World.

King/Dictator provided security, order and opportunity. Now when Spain is democracy (constitutional monarchy), its in decay with 20% unemployment and citizens emigrating.



Do you remember that South Korea had a dictator Park Chung Hee who ruled South Korea for 20 years? He had to take power and rule the country, while he let people do business (capitalism). He transformed South Korea from third world country to leading high-income high-tech service-led developed first world country.

Greece was backwarded land ravaged by civil war, turkish occupation and world war 2, then dictator Giorgios Papadopoulos took power and transformed Greece into first world country, Greece had economic miracle in that time.

Chiang Kai Chek ruled Taiwan as a dictator for 25 years and his martial law lasted for 38 years, longest in history! He had White Terror, oppressiong opposition and killing dissidents, but he transformed Taiwan from insignificant Chinese isle to first world country.

Singapore's prime minister Lee Kuan Yew ruled for 30 years and was condemned for media censorship, human rights violation and oppression but he transformed Singapore from third world colonial outpost to first world tiger.



There are many examples and that's the question, whether to accept dictatorship and prosperity or freedom and poverty. As we can see in Eastern Europe and ex-Soviet countries, they are unable to prosper although they have freedom and democracy. No matter whom they vote on elections, situation is the same for 25 years.

Albeit I'm a national socialist and youre a communist, this is something we both are able to realize. The destructiveness democracy and capitalism can do to a nation.

Ecrit par Valetorious, 21.08.2016 at 16:57

Albeit I'm a national socialist and youre a communist, this is something we both are able to realize. The destructiveness democracy and capitalism can do to a nation.

I am not a communist but i have no problem living in a communist country and/or promote/discuss communist policies if they serve the people. I was named Stalin and had Red Army clan for fun as i know this is game is spawning ground for anti-communists, entertaining to watch them.

If i have to choose some ideology, that would be Putinism; realism before ideology, realpolitik, anti-imperialism, humanism and most of all pro-referendumism. In this era of information and social platforms it is impossible to go against people and win, that's why you create referendum and let them decide, majority wins and you obey the outcome. Whether it is reunion with long lost region, anti-abortion, anti-gay law or pro-life, pro-war, pro-militarism.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 21.08.2016 at 16:47

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 21.08.2016 at 09:48

Godfather You prefere Freedom and power of the people or a Tyranny with Gulags?

Not sure, that's the battle many people on this planet have; Order and Prosperity or Freedom and Poverty.

You made on your profile to say location Spain, so if you are from Spain, you remember Old Spanish Monarchy. King as dictator rule the country, but people are free to do whatever they want, join the military, create jobs in the economy, trade with others, enlist in the navy to have adventures in the New World.

King/Dictator provided security, order and opportunity. Now when Spain is democracy (constitutional monarchy), its in decay with 20% unemployment and citizens emigrating.



Do you remember that South Korea had a dictator Park Chung Hee who ruled South Korea for 20 years? He had to take power and rule the country, while he let people do business (capitalism). He transformed South Korea from third world country to leading high-income high-tech service-led developed first world country.

Greece was backwarded land ravaged by civil war, turkish occupation and world war 2, then dictator Giorgios Papadopoulos took power and transformed Greece into first world country, Greece had economic miracle in that time.

Chiang Kai Chek ruled Taiwan as a dictator for 25 years and his martial law lasted for 38 years, longest in history! He had White Terror, oppressiong opposition and killing dissidents, but he transformed Taiwan from insignificant Chinese isle to first world country.

Singapore's prime minister Lee Kuan Yew ruled for 30 years and was condemned for media censorship, human rights violation and oppression but he transformed Singapore from third world colonial outpost to first world tiger.



There are many examples and that's the question, whether to accept dictatorship and prosperity or freedom and poverty. As we can see in Eastern Europe and ex-Soviet countries, they are unable to prosper although they have freedom and democracy. No matter whom they vote on elections, situation is the same for 25 years.

Well before starting you missed the number of jailed killed wounded or tortured people during all of the time they did rule.Also the 99% to the money created by that op economies ended up in the dictator's family, his friends and the government.The dictatorship is the same as the capitalism but we don't elect our ruler and we can't protest if he is torturing people if he massacres people in the streets.
These rulers you mentioned are the few one who made something for their people but look at African dictators: DR Congo the poorest country in the world where people have 1.5$ salary per day in the mine,USSR where Stalin killed 45 million of people lost all european part of USSR and let enemy enter in the outskirts of Moscow that people who says USSR won greatly they lie, USSR won but with a so big sacrifice that even today the number of women in some cities of Russia Ukraine and Belarus is 60% against 40% of the men.Stalin sent people to Gulags just cause they didn't give to the government their houses their own things.And the Perestroika period was even worser.They just sold the country and few bank directors closed the banks and stole the money and went to US.Millions of that poor people which had all their savings they lost all.
Turkmenistan dictator build the biggest ice palace in the world in the middle of the desert.
Kim Jong Un and their father and grandfather established in North Korea a system with 35% of the population starving, total censorship of all, slave camps, outside Pyongyang the life is impossible.
Francisco Franco in Spain which made the worst civil war in the history of Spain against a democratic government.He tortured thousands of normal people and raised the corruption levels tp maximum.
Hugo Chavez and Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela destroyed the country.Venezuela today hasn't medicaments food and basicly nothing only oil.You need to stay 3 hours to get food.
Most of dictators only worry about theirselves and nobody more.

Communism won't extinct but it's an outdated system.The people doesn't want the government to give them all cause they prefere work and achieve more.

And Spain never was stable or rich.Never.The Kings wasted the american gold to pay wars.

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 22.08.2016 at 05:42

Communism won't extinct but it's an outdated system.The people doesn't want the government to give them all cause they prefere work and achieve more.

That's the problem, half of East Europeans want Communism back because it provided modern system:

Hospitals worked, schools worked, libraries worked, military existed;

Hospitals treated not only domestic patients, but also from the third world, like arab fighters, african soldiers, indian workers, there was room for everyone and hospitals were not overcrowded. They were properly funded and run, all patients got medical attention, proper medication et cetera. In the 60's, some yugoslav hospital had plague, and they solved with in few weeks, it didn't spread from hospital to the city or country, because they had knowledge, training, planning and skill. Do you think if something like that happen today will be solved? Todays doctors are not even 50% trained like old communist ones.
Today in East Europe you go to hospital when get sick and they ask you to pay for treatment, which is outrageous as these doctors and nurses already get their salary in the hospital, and civilians pay taxes which goes to healthcare which mean they already paid treatment. Hospitals are underfunded and doesn't have syringes, beds, some of them even stable electricity, windows, high-tech equipment not to mention. They let people die if you don't bribe them, they call police and hire private security to kick out patients without money. People become permanently disabled from easily prevented diseases simply because doctors doesn't want to treat them.

Schools are underfunded and teachers unwilling to teach students properly although they have probably the highest wages in the country. Schools are like prisons and children are begging parents not to send them there. They get beated, tortured, harassed, even sexually assaulted. They get their life ruined and nothing is done to solve the problem.

Libraries are being closed and only way to read books is to buy them from private printing companies which dictate the price which is astronomical so of course people with all problems they have and no money they definitely wont consider buying books.

Military was highly respected institution , defended the country, provided security to civilians and even provided education, driving school, libraries and invested in real estate & tourism so both civilians, foreigners and soldiers could have holidays and housing after military career. Today military requires you to already have drivers license if you want to go to mechanised/motorised divisions, they offer no education anymore, no libraries and all hotels, buildings, resorts and real estate military owned is stolen by oligarchs who sold it to make millions.

So you get millions of people who were taught Communism is paradise and West is evil, then Communism collapse and Westernism & Capitalism arrived, and those people living standard plunged as everything stopped working and nothing new is being created to replace the old system. So they start questioning new system and start to compare it with the old one.

It seems that old [communism]party wanted power, but they provided modern system to the people, but today you have 4-5 parties, 1 of them on power, but make deal with other 4, they share positions, wealth, ministries, government, cabinet, local provinces, companies and they don't spend money on country development like previous (communist)party did, they take all for themselves. During elections, they all go on stage accusing each other, arguing, spamming how they will do this and that, and after that they all have nice dinner, laughing and drinking, and when some of them win, they wave, express gratitude people gave them trust, and then simply share money and power with other parties so in reality it doesn't matter who win on elections. And situation is getting worse.

Population of USSR growth was 2.5 million a year, clear sign of proper policies like childcare, mothercare, education, housing. From 170 million in 1945 to 290 million in 1990. Today Soviet Space doesn't have more than 1 million population growth, almost 3 times less than in oppressive communist system. Russia had from 1991 to until recently minus 1 million growth, Ukraine still have -200,000

So how to create new system to maintain old development? And we are not talking about further development, although we all deserve to have it, but we talk here about going back to old highest achievest level, nothing more.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 22.08.2016 at 09:45

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 22.08.2016 at 05:42

Communism won't extinct but it's an outdated system.The people doesn't want the government to give them all cause they prefere work and achieve more.

That's the problem, half of East Europeans want Communism back because it provided modern system:

Hospitals worked, schools worked, libraries worked, military existed;

Hospitals treated not only domestic patients, but also from the third world, like arab fighters, african soldiers, indian workers, there was room for everyone and hospitals were not overcrowded. They were properly funded and run, all patients got medical attention, proper medication et cetera. In the 60's, some yugoslav hospital had plague, and they solved with in few weeks, it didn't spread from hospital to the city or country, because they had knowledge, training, planning and skill. Do you think if something like that happen today will be solved? Todays doctors are not even 50% trained like old communist ones.
Today in East Europe you go to hospital when get sick and they ask you to pay for treatment, which is outrageous as these doctors and nurses already get their salary in the hospital, and civilians pay taxes which goes to healthcare which mean they already paid treatment. Hospitals are underfunded and doesn't have syringes, beds, some of them even stable electricity, windows, high-tech equipment not to mention. They let people die if you don't bribe them, they call police and hire private security to kick out patients without money. People become permanently disabled from easily prevented diseases simply because doctors doesn't want to treat them.

Schools are underfunded and teachers unwilling to teach students properly although they have probably the highest wages in the country. Schools are like prisons and children are begging parents not to send them there. They get beated, tortured, harassed, even sexually assaulted. They get their life ruined and nothing is done to solve the problem.

Libraries are being closed and only way to read books is to buy them from private printing companies which dictate the price which is astronomical so of course people with all problems they have and no money they definitely wont consider buying books.

Military was highly respected institution , defended the country, provided security to civilians and even provided education, driving school, libraries and invested in real estate & tourism so both civilians, foreigners and soldiers could have holidays and housing after military career. Today military requires you to already have drivers license if you want to go to mechanised/motorised divisions, they offer no education anymore, no libraries and all hotels, buildings, resorts and real estate military owned is stolen by oligarchs who sold it to make millions.

So you get millions of people who were taught Communism is paradise and West is evil, then Communism collapse and Westernism & Capitalism arrived, and those people living standard plunged as everything stopped working and nothing new is being created to replace the old system. So they start questioning new system and start to compare it with the old one.

It seems that old [communism]party wanted power, but they provided modern system to the people, but today you have 4-5 parties, 1 of them on power, but make deal with other 4, they share positions, wealth, ministries, government, cabinet, local provinces, companies and they don't spend money on country development like previous (communist)party did, they take all for themselves. During elections, they all go on stage accusing each other, arguing, spamming how they will do this and that, and after that they all have nice dinner, laughing and drinking, and when some of them win, they wave, express gratitude people gave them trust, and then simply share money and power with other parties so in reality it doesn't matter who win on elections. And situation is getting worse.

Population of USSR growth was 2.5 million a year, clear sign of proper policies like childcare, mothercare, education, housing. From 170 million in 1945 to 290 million in 1990. Today Soviet Space doesn't have more than 1 million population growth, almost 3 times less than in oppressive communist system. Russia had from 1991 to until recently minus 1 million growth, Ukraine still have -200,000

So how to create new system to maintain old development? And we are not talking about further development, although we all deserve to have it, but we talk here about going back to old highest achievest level, nothing more.

Look I respect your communism ideas but with actual situation in any country the communist parties aren't in increase.
Germany has for example a big part of the population with a membership in extreme right parties which will increase their votes.
UK and France have the same thing.
Communist party in Spain : Izquierda Unida won like 2%-3% of votes.
The reality is that the population growth in USSR was great but they hadn't future. The money in capitalism is in the power of 1% of population.
In communism the money is in the power of the ruler and the communist party so less than 1%
While in China there are extreme rich and extreme poor, in USA most of population is middle class which can pay an insurance for their hospitals.
The Crisis in 2008 affected all the world and that situations you said I didn't see that.
In most of European countries there is a public free healthcare public free schools.Yes some schools are not funded well but you can't compare the rich of Paris and a village in the middle of France.
How to be better like in old times?
Riot until we get the things we want.European Union citizens need to fight more for their liberties and rights.
4 or 5 parties no.Some European countries can have 10 parties or more.
Almost never you have 1 party in the power.The real democracy consists in talking and reach agreements.Most of countries do that.I never saw in an EU country a party which accused to electoral fraud.NEVER. It's African problem.
At least we have options.Not like in USSR.
Stalin as I said was mentally ill he built gulags which destroyed the lifes of 10 million people.Where is your greay USSR when?Where is your great USSR while 100 bank directors stole all the savings in 1991 of millions and millions of people leaving them with nothing?
Communism is the same shit as Capitalism but at least in Capitalism we can do something.
Plus Russia which wanted to conserve something from the communism today is in EXTREME CAPITALISM.

Ecrit par Ghostface, 21.08.2016 at 13:50

I can make a whole book on why your statement and communism itself was bad , but i will just show you this comparation:

Nazi Germany in its reign saw:
A sharp decline in unemployment , infact the lowest the country has seen ever until then
Built a lot of factories which made Germany one of the best industrialized countries
Got the country out of the great depression
One of the highest increases in GDP and overall living standard
Created one of the best equiped armies , navies and airforce
One of the first laws that worked to help animal conservation and ban hunting certain animal species
They were enviromentalists

... so from your logic , its perfectly fine for all governments in the world to switch to Nazism?
Edit: also i forgot the Nazi regime was also one of the first to try and aquire Uranium to try construct an Atomic Bomb

Funny... resembles a lot to the current USA somehow....

My point is that the economic system has nothing to do with the political ideology. Or does it..... inb4 USA converts into nazism....

I believe communism doesn't need to be attached to totaliratism as some people here seem to think. It just hasn't been taken to practice as in theory it should be.

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 22.08.2016 at 12:02

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 22.08.2016 at 09:45

Ecrit par Free_Warrior, 22.08.2016 at 05:42

Communism won't extinct but it's an outdated system.The people doesn't want the government to give them all cause they prefere work and achieve more.

That's the problem, half of East Europeans want Communism back because it provided modern system:

Hospitals worked, schools worked, libraries worked, military existed;

Hospitals treated not only domestic patients, but also from the third world, like arab fighters, african soldiers, indian workers, there was room for everyone and hospitals were not overcrowded. They were properly funded and run, all patients got medical attention, proper medication et cetera. In the 60's, some yugoslav hospital had plague, and they solved with in few weeks, it didn't spread from hospital to the city or country, because they had knowledge, training, planning and skill. Do you think if something like that happen today will be solved? Todays doctors are not even 50% trained like old communist ones.
Today in East Europe you go to hospital when get sick and they ask you to pay for treatment, which is outrageous as these doctors and nurses already get their salary in the hospital, and civilians pay taxes which goes to healthcare which mean they already paid treatment. Hospitals are underfunded and doesn't have syringes, beds, some of them even stable electricity, windows, high-tech equipment not to mention. They let people die if you don't bribe them, they call police and hire private security to kick out patients without money. People become permanently disabled from easily prevented diseases simply because doctors doesn't want to treat them.

Schools are underfunded and teachers unwilling to teach students properly although they have probably the highest wages in the country. Schools are like prisons and children are begging parents not to send them there. They get beated, tortured, harassed, even sexually assaulted. They get their life ruined and nothing is done to solve the problem.

Libraries are being closed and only way to read books is to buy them from private printing companies which dictate the price which is astronomical so of course people with all problems they have and no money they definitely wont consider buying books.

Military was highly respected institution , defended the country, provided security to civilians and even provided education, driving school, libraries and invested in real estate & tourism so both civilians, foreigners and soldiers could have holidays and housing after military career. Today military requires you to already have drivers license if you want to go to mechanised/motorised divisions, they offer no education anymore, no libraries and all hotels, buildings, resorts and real estate military owned is stolen by oligarchs who sold it to make millions.

So you get millions of people who were taught Communism is paradise and West is evil, then Communism collapse and Westernism & Capitalism arrived, and those people living standard plunged as everything stopped working and nothing new is being created to replace the old system. So they start questioning new system and start to compare it with the old one.

It seems that old [communism]party wanted power, but they provided modern system to the people, but today you have 4-5 parties, 1 of them on power, but make deal with other 4, they share positions, wealth, ministries, government, cabinet, local provinces, companies and they don't spend money on country development like previous (communist)party did, they take all for themselves. During elections, they all go on stage accusing each other, arguing, spamming how they will do this and that, and after that they all have nice dinner, laughing and drinking, and when some of them win, they wave, express gratitude people gave them trust, and then simply share money and power with other parties so in reality it doesn't matter who win on elections. And situation is getting worse.

Population of USSR growth was 2.5 million a year, clear sign of proper policies like childcare, mothercare, education, housing. From 170 million in 1945 to 290 million in 1990. Today Soviet Space doesn't have more than 1 million population growth, almost 3 times less than in oppressive communist system. Russia had from 1991 to until recently minus 1 million growth, Ukraine still have -200,000

So how to create new system to maintain old development? And we are not talking about further development, although we all deserve to have it, but we talk here about going back to old highest achievest level, nothing more.

Look I respect your communism ideas but with actual situation in any country the communist parties aren't in increase.
In West Europe;
Germany has for example a big part of the population with a membership in extreme right parties which will increase their votes.
UK and France have the same thing.
Communist party in Spain : Izquierda Unida won like 2%-3% of votes.
The reality is that the population growth in USSR was great but they hadn't future. The money in capitalism is in the power of 1% of population.
In communism the money is in the power of the ruler and the communist party so less than 1%
While in China there are extreme rich and extreme poor, in USA most of population is middle class which can pay an insurance for their hospitals.
The Crisis in 2008 affected all the world and that situations you said I didn't see that.
In most of European countries there is a public free healthcare public free schools.Yes some schools are not funded well but you can't compare the rich of Paris and a village in the middle of France.
How to be better like in old times?
Riot until we get the things we want.European Union citizens need to fight more for their liberties and rights.
4 or 5 parties no.Some European countries can have 10 parties or more.
Almost never you have 1 party in the power.The real democracy consists in talking and reach agreements.Most of countries do that.I never saw in an EU country a party which accused to electoral fraud.NEVER. It's African problem.
At least we have options.Not like in USSR.
Stalin as I said was mentally ill he built gulags which destroyed the lifes of 10 million people.Where is your greay USSR when?Where is your great USSR while 100 bank directors stole all the savings in 1991 of millions and millions of people leaving them with nothing?
Communism is the same shit as Capitalism but at least in Capitalism we can do something.
Plus Russia which wanted to conserve something from the communism today is in EXTREME CAPITALISM.
In East Europe we have Dictatorship Belarus, Dicatorship Russia, Bulgaria and Romania which Thanks to EU are growing and getting better life.Poland today thanks to EU has 1/3 of GDP of Russia with 35 million.Ukraine is in war because Putin wants to restore USSR and get more popularity.Balkan countries are still affected after the Balkan war and Serbia Montenegro which are more with Russia than with EU has high uneployment,and bad situation.I hope Serbia will enter EU and get better as Ukraine.
But all that communist movement are just elderly people which wants back something it's impossible to give back.

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 21.08.2016 at 16:47

King/Dictator provided security, order and opportunity. Now when Spain is democracy (constitutional monarchy), its in decay with 20% unemployment and citizens emigrating.

You clearly don't know much about spanish history/circumstances if you really mean that...

EDIT: actually, our brightest economic moment was during the second republic if I'm not wrong. What you need is a good leader, no matter what his ideology is. That's how a country moves on.

Ecrit par RaulPB, 22.08.2016 at 12:10

Ecrit par Skanderbeg, 21.08.2016 at 16:47

King/Dictator provided security, order and opportunity. Now when Spain is democracy (constitutional monarchy), its in decay with 20% unemployment and citizens emigrating.

You clearly don't know much about spanish history if you really mean that...

Yeah Spain was always poor thanks to idiot kings and government.
and Godfather I will reply the message again cause Idk what happened tbh.








Look I respect your communism ideas but with actual situation in any country the communist parties aren't in increase.
In West Europe;
Germany has for example a big part of the population with a membership in extreme right parties which will increase their votes.
UK and France have the same thing.
Communist party in Spain : Izquierda Unida won like 2%-3% of votes.
The reality is that the population growth in USSR was great but they hadn't future. The money in capitalism is in the power of 1% of population.
In communism the money is in the power of the ruler and the communist party so less than 1%
While in China there are extreme rich and extreme poor, in USA most of population is middle class which can pay an insurance for their hospitals.
The Crisis in 2008 affected all the world and that situations you said I didn't see that.
In most of European countries there is a public free healthcare public free schools.Yes some schools are not funded well but you can't compare the rich of Paris and a village in the middle of France.
How to be better like in old times?
Riot until we get the things we want.European Union citizens need to fight more for their liberties and rights.
4 or 5 parties no.Some European countries can have 10 parties or more.
Almost never you have 1 party in the power.The real democracy consists in talking and reach agreements.Most of countries do that.I never saw in an EU country a party which accused to electoral fraud.NEVER. It's African problem.
At least we have options.Not like in USSR.
Stalin as I said was mentally ill he built gulags which destroyed the lifes of 10 million people.Where is your greay USSR when?Where is your great USSR while 100 bank directors stole all the savings in 1991 of millions and millions of people leaving them with nothing?
Communism is the same shit as Capitalism but at least in Capitalism we can do something.
Plus Russia which wanted to conserve something from the communism today is in EXTREME CAPITALISM.
In East Europe we have Dictatorship Belarus, Dicatorship Russia, Bulgaria and Romania which Thanks to EU are growing and getting better life.Poland today thanks to EU has 1/3 of GDP of Russia with 35 million.Ukraine is in war because Putin wants to restore USSR and get more popularity.Balkan countries are still affected after the Balkan war and Serbia Montenegro which are more with Russia than with EU has high uneployment,and bad situation.I hope Serbia will enter EU and get better as Ukraine.
But all that communist movement are just elderly people which wants back something it's impossible to give back.